The Gypsies, who call themselves Roma or Romany, are a nomadic culture which originated in India during the Middle Ages. They migrated widely, particularly to Europe, where they worked as farm laborers, metalworkers, scrapdealers, and horsetraders. They also made a living as entertainers, fortune tellers, and grifters. Persecuted by the Nazis, and discriminated against to this day, the Roma have a long tradition of Magic and Shamanism.

The Roma are to be admired for their survival skills in a hostile world, and for the longevity and persistance of their culture. Gypsies, have done more than any race or class on the face of the earth to disseminate among the multitude a belief in Divination, Magickal or Sympathetic cures, Amulets etc but in saying that, very few have any conception of the degree to which Gypsies have been the colporteurs of "the old faith, " or witchcraft.

Ki shan i Romani--
Adoi san' i chov'hani.

Wherever gypsies go,
There the witches are, we know.

Many people believe that the Romany Gypsy could very well be Fire worshippers, as Fire draws them like a magnet. People would sit around a good *yog* fire telling the tales of the day while the smoked black kettle sang happily way on the kettle iron, ready to make the endless cups of tea required. The talk would be very wide ranging, from the incidents of the day, deals struck, horses good and bad, people met with etc. all puncuated with the odd snort of laughter of expressions of sympathy. When the logs would settle down among a shower of sparks, the fire would reflect a gentle glow on the thoughtful faces, and at this point the talk would turn to families, old and new. The age old question would be raised, where exactly do we come from. Many gypsies have themselves, several ideas on the subject.

Some believe they came from India, others believe Egypt, hence the name Gypsy, the last priestly caste of the old Egyptian religion. 9 out of 10 believe their people are descended from American Indians, and it is true, that if you compare old photographs of the two peoples, it is extremely hard to tell which is which. The story goes that the Gypsy left the Amercan Shores to travel the world dealing in their horses. Any theory could be the correct one, as there have always been travellers from the beginning of time itself, and at the end of the *yog* fire talks, it always said,

* We were the first people God made, We've always been here, and we always will be, in spite of what the Gorga do to us!

Gorga = Non Gypsies.

Over the years the travellers would become increasingly estranged from the *settled* population, and of course with estrangement comes distrust, and with distrust , fear.

It is a well known fact people fear that of which they don't understand.



Gypsy life has a romantic appeal, and C.G.Leland, who popularized Gypsy lore in his 1891 Book *Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling*, played no small part in this image-making. However, Leland makes it abudantly clear that life on the road was hard.

Sources used:- Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling by C.G Leland 1891.
Romany Gypsy Magic by Patrinella Cooper

Dza Devlesa,

That was really interesting...thanks Dracos!

Daisy xx

_________________


Listen and in thine heart engrave my words; Keep closed thine eye and ear 'gainst prejudice;
Of others the example fear; think always for thyself: Consult, deliberate, and freely choose.
Let fools act aimlessly and without cause. Thou shouldst, in the present, contemplate the future.

(The Golden Verses of Pythagoras - D'Olivet)

hey daisey!

thanks hun, its a subject very close to me, i will be adding more as time goes on.

Bright Blessings,

Cool! Can't wit to hear the rest then! I think th enomadic gypsy life would have suited me....i get itchy feet if I stay somewhere too long! I think I've moved about 16 times in my life (I'm 25).

Can I ask why you feel such a connection? A past life maybe?

Daisy xx

_________________


Listen and in thine heart engrave my words; Keep closed thine eye and ear 'gainst prejudice;
Of others the example fear; think always for thyself: Consult, deliberate, and freely choose.
Let fools act aimlessly and without cause. Thou shouldst, in the present, contemplate the future.

(The Golden Verses of Pythagoras - D'Olivet)

hey Daisey,

I' m adopted, and when searching for my birth parents, i found out my Birth Mother was Romany Gypsy. I'm still looking for info, its a long hard trek to say the least lol. All I had was one old photgraph and a name, left in my original birth records that i managed to obtain from stockport.

From what i have found out, children are the world to the Romanys, so some of the tales i grew up with, from my adopted parents no longer hold water.

Bright Blessings,

i'd love to see more on this subject. its always fascinated me. dracos, you should write an article, or a series of articles about the romany culture, it'd be a great read.

daisy, i know what you mean, we moved quite a bit when i was a kid, not as much as you though!

Thanks Whitraven!

I am putting together some more articles now, Ill post them up when their finished.

Bright Blessings

Thats fab Dracos...discovering your roots, wow!

Can't wait for the nesxt instalment of this thread!

Daisy xx

_________________


Listen and in thine heart engrave my words; Keep closed thine eye and ear 'gainst prejudice;
Of others the example fear; think always for thyself: Consult, deliberate, and freely choose.
Let fools act aimlessly and without cause. Thou shouldst, in the present, contemplate the future.

(The Golden Verses of Pythagoras - D'Olivet)

The dreamworld is a strange but fascinating place. Philosophers have told us that the waking world is a dream, and the dreamworld is reality, while psychologists tell us that we need to dream to keep us sane. Most dreams are muddled fantasy versions of everyday life, incorporating actual events with things we may have seen on the telly, as well as those things that are uppermost in our minds.

Other dreams are especially vivid, and they sometimes stay with us for weeks. Our subconscious tells us there is something out of the ordinary, even portentous about such dreams. Quiet often such dreams are telling us that that there is a problem that one doesn't want to admit to, making itself felt in symbolic form.

The Romany people set great store by dreams, and are not embarrassed to discuss them openly if the meaning seems odd or strange. Below is a list of the most commonly used by the Romany people, the symbols and their meanings. Sometimes two or more symbols will appear in the same dream, in which case they should be considered together to make a kinda story. For example, if and axe, a bird and some fruit appeared in the same dream, it might mean that now is the time to push yourself forward, and use your initiative at work. If you do, your life will take a turn for the better, promotion and financial gain etc.

Romany Dream Lore

ACCIDENT - to be involved in one: take care of whom you can trust.
TO watch an accident happen: Someone close to you is in trouble.

ANGEL - Someone loves you. You will be protected from harm.

ANIMALS - Domestic animals: Happiness, true freinds
Wild animals: A freind is angry with you.
Animal chasing you: Someone is jealous of you.
Young animals playing: an addition to the family.
A lion or other big cat: Power and promotion.

ANTS: Work will keep you busy, but will bring rewards.

ARROW: You will be let down by someone you trust.

AXE: Stick up for yourself and you will get your own way.

BABY: A sign of happiness to come. A new way of life is open to you.

BASKET/BAG: If full - You are carrying too much worry or responsibility.
If empty: You will suffer a loss.

BAT: Flying near you- A false friend, Away from you - unseen danger.

BEES: A very fortunate omen, life will be good.

BIRDS: Your life will soon improve.
Lark/songbirds: Great happiness
Owl silently looking: Lessons learned
Owl hooting: Your sins will find you out
Cock crowing: Deception revealed

BOAT: A change of abode. If the water is calm the change will be for the better. If the waters are stormy, things will not go at all smoothly.

BOOK: If you are reading a book, you will make a discovery. If the book is closed, you are turning blind eye to something.

BRIDGE: A needless worry will soon be resolved

BUTTERFLY: an unfithful lover

CAGE: Loss of freedom, others will rely on you.

CARAVAN: A long journey ahead.

CASTLE: A dream fulfilled brings with it responsibilty

CHILDREN: Playing - A Happy union. Crying children - delayed marriage/union/partnership

CHURCH/CHAPEL: A bad sign, be careful in what you say or do. A church service mens your worrying about relatives or close friends.

CORN: Prosperity

DAGGER:If being threatened with a dagger, and enemy is waiting to hurt you. If your holding the dagger - Do all you can not to bring trouble upon yourself.

DEATH: Death and all things connected to it - A new start.

DEVIL: Your baser instincts take over, try to avoid temptation

DRINK: If you are drinking, you need more out of life. If you are drunk, you will be successful, but dont let it go to your head.

DRUMS: Bad news is coming.

EGGS: Broken - loss Unbroken - Gains

FIRE: Things are getting out of hand

FISHING: Ambitions realised. A fish jumping signifies an opportunity is coming your way, be ready!

FOG/MIST: If your lost in the mist, things dont turn out quite as you expect.

FRUIT; Prosperity. Rotten fruit - You will not gain as much as you hoped.
Apple: Love
Bad Apple: Love will not bringyou joy.

HARVEST: To reap corn, fruit and vegtbles etc, signifies that you will reap the fruits of your labour.

HILLS: To climb up a hill/mountain signifies that you will gain recognition. To descend - a disappointment.
The same applies to a ladder, stairs, or any climbing dream.
If at the top you looking over a precipice - be cautious or disaster may stike.

HORSESHOE: Luck in gambling. A horse - someone wishes to help you and good advice will come your way.

ICE - SNOW - HAIL: Failure and dispute

INVISIBILTY: If your invisible, you feel that you are not getting enough attention, don't make a fool out of yourself.
If somone else is invisible, someone needs your help, dont ignore them.

JEALOUSY: Your feeling insecure

JEWELLERY: You will become wealthier.

KEY: Marriage

KNIFE: Illness

LAMP: If the lamp is lit, you are intelligent and able to see the truth. If unlit, you need more mental stimulation.

LEAVES AND TREES: A good omen for growth in all areas ofyour life. A new friendship is in the air, and your health improves.
Laurel Leaves - success and fame. A garden bonfire - loss and sadness in th family.

LETTER: Urgent news is forthcoming.

LIGHTENING; Success in an unexpecte manner.

LOVE OR ABSENT FRIENDS: If your friend is sad, they miss you. If Happy, they dont really care.

MOON; Happiness in love.

NEST: If the nest has eggs or chick in it- home and family bring happiness. If the nest is empty - Sadness in the home, your pining for someone.

NUDITY: You make a huge and grave mistake.

PAINTING AND DECORATING: A false friend, you see through them but pretend not to. A situation is not to your liking but you put up with it for the sake of peace.

PURSE: An empty purse is a good omen. A full purse - theft

QUICKSAND/MUD: A lucky dream, it means social advancement, a fortunate marriage, union etc.

RAIN: Trouble at home or work

RAINBOW: Good health, A dream comes true.

RING: Marriage

RUNNING: Enthusiasm could overcome your better judgement

SPIDER: Money comes to you from unexpected places.

STARS: In the sky - success through friends. Falling stars - Failure, discord

STEALING; If your the thief, you will overcome an enemy or rival. If you are stolen from - a small gain is coming your way.

STONES: Sorrow or bad health

STRAW: Loss of money

SUN: To be in the sun - A worry will be resolved. If the sun comes out from behind a cloud - you will learn the truth about something that has puzzled you.

TENT: To be inside a tent - security and peace of mind. To erect a tent - your laying good groundwork for the future.

TUNNEL: A change of abode. Excitement, new experiences.

WATCHES AND CLOCKS: You lack independence. Dissappointing employment prospects, you don't like your work.

WITCH: You gain through creativity or imagination

WORMS: A storm in a teacup. You are letting trivialities get on top of you.

WOUNDS CUTS BRUISES AND ILLNESS: On yourself - Love comes unexpectedley. Hasty marriage.


Sources Used: Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling by C.G Leland 1891.
Gypsy Magic. A Romany Book of Spells, Charms and Fortune Telling by Patrinella Cooper.

Sources Used :- Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling by C.G Leland 1891.

Romani culture is fascinating, I'm loving this thread.

I'll be coming back to read more too Dracos! This great!

_________________
Moderator of: Herbs.

I'm happy to help with any questions!

You're putting this together beautifully Dracos, thank you for sharing this, it's making an excellent read!!

_________________
Please PM me anytime, I'm happy to help!!

Yeah this is sad that this has happened and so many people have bad views of travelling folk etc. And it is just misunderstanding.

I remember when I was at school and some travellers set up camp not far from the school. While they were there we would visit them and they were so friendly and nice. Really welcoming. They answered all of our questions and helped us understand.

This good thing about them is that they are so skilled. It is my understanding that a man will teach his future son in law the trade he has and this way knowledge and skills are passed down.

Also what I like the most about them is the unity and closeness that they have. They all bond together in one big family and are willing to lend a hand all of the time.

All of their ways should be a lesson we should all learn on how to make the world a better place.

_________________
I still believe in paradise...
But now at least I know it's not some place you can look for
Because its not where you go,
It's how you feel for a moment in your life
If you find that moment,
It will last forever...

<----BunnyWunny Pancake Head

A spell can mean several things, from a complicated rite lasting several days, to a simple charm like spitting on a coin found in the street! Even a flirtatious glance across a room can be said to cast a spell in various circumstances.

The Romany call their wise women, Choovihni. The Choovihni, will often create a new spell to suit the occasion. Given the basic knowledge of color, perfume, herb and symbolism, anyone can do the same.

In saying that though, there are many tried and tested spells that have been used with success by generations of Romany People - some very simple, some more complicated.

The spells would all have been written in Romanes, the Romany language

A Spell for Attracting Material Goods.

This is a deceptively simple but exceedingly effective spell for attracting material goods of any description into your life.

Write down whatever it is you desire on a clean sheet of paper, or alternatively, obtain a sketch or photo of the same.

Place the paper or photo on a small square of green cloth.

Concentrate on it for a few moments.

Visualise the thing before you, the shape, the texture, color.

Feel the pride in owning the thing, the pleasure you hope it will bring, what you would do with it.

Then pick up the paper or photo and hold it to your forehead, saying three times,
I have you, I hold you, I keep you.

Fold the paper into the green cloth, then tie it around with a length of Red wool or thread. Tie seven knots into the wool/thread. As you tie each knot, say :- You are mine. I own you.

Put the whole in a small box of some kind. Each day, for seven days, hold the box to your forehead and say three times, You are mine, I own you! Put the box away in a drawer, etc. until the following day.

Sources Used :- Gypsy Sorcery and Fortune Telling by C.G Leland 1891.