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Asphodel
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Post subject:  Posted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 4:08 pm |
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| Forum Admin, Mod, Life Member & Torey's Little Helper |
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Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:57 pm
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I haven't come across much more about Ve either, Rae'ya. Though I admit (lol) that I do have much more to read and contemplate.
I've enjoyed your theory truthfully, and learned a few things in the process of reading it.
In the Poetic Edda's Voluspo, translated by Bellows there is mention in Stanza 18 and it's notes of the very thing you were talking about in Loki being a part in the creation of Ask and Embla (giving them heat and goodly hue) as well as his alternate name. Bellows mentions that Loki might be a blending of two distinct figures, one being an old Fire God as well as Odin 'adopting' Loki. Reincarnation of Ve truly does make a lot of sense to me.
I've read too, that the 12th Hall in Asgard mentioned in the Grimnismol, that isn't really gone into details about or given to any Aesir in particular, might be Loki's Hall. This idea actually fits in nicely with your theory to me (aside from my liking the idea. lol).
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ISO2
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:14 am |
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| Geburah Sephira (Severity) |
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:20 am
Posts: 1110
Location: Baltimore MD
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A philosophical question to those who follow the Norse gods: Why did the gods not prevent Ragnaroek? One way could have been instead of chaining Loki to the rock to kill him. Certainly not entirely new even amongst the gods they chose their fate instead. Was it a simple choice of honor above even one own's life? What do you guys think?
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timendi causa est nescire
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WhiteFox
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:51 pm |
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| Magicka Guardian |
Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 3:38 am
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Location: On Magicka's roof, scouting out her next tile victim
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Maybe it's simply beyond them.
Besides, wasn't time a bit more circular back to those people back then? When the end comes, it goes back to the beginning as well?
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Asphodel
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Post subject: Posted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:08 pm |
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| Forum Admin, Mod, Life Member & Torey's Little Helper |
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Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 5:57 pm
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I'd wondered the same thing many times, ISO2. lol But too, the Norse Gods are depicted in such a 'human' way that perhaps WhiteFox is onto something. Even the Gods couldn't escape the Norn's weaving.
Perhaps too it could be seen as one of the reasons that Odin is on his perpetual search for knowledge. It may not be that they can't stop Ragnarok, perhaps it's just that they haven't found a way yet. I'll admit that this is wishful thinking, I have a hard time thinking of them dying without shedding a tear or two. lol In my mind at this point in my studies though, it seems feasible.
I've read on a few occasions that the Norns weave our fates, but we have a hand in it as well. What we do creates the 'free will' aspect of things. In other words, how I understand it is that they have a hand in when we'll die, but we determine how based on what we've done and what we do. In the terms of spinning thread, our ancestors are the beginnings of that thread, the part that our lives attach to to give that thread a base. We then determine what color the thread will be based on our actions (this would be the material that the Norns use to spin our thread), we partially determine too how the tapestry of our lives is woven. Perhaps it isn't much different for the Gods. Perhaps their actions sealed their fates, and perhaps the actions they've taken since the writings of our current myths and sagas have changed that fate.
If Loki had not been chained then, would he have gone to the lengths to make sure he was later on to ensure that the fates of the Gods would still end in Ragnarok? I can't imagine that this would be a pleasant thing to look forward to, but if Loki is an agent of Wyrd (I still think the theory is sound), it could be that he did what he did intentionally. If they hadn't chained him then, he may well have pushed even harder to ensure that he was (or an equivalent) later on.
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ISO2
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Mar 18, 2010 4:02 am |
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| Geburah Sephira (Severity) |
Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2007 2:20 am
Posts: 1110
Location: Baltimore MD
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Asphodel I think you are right. The time of our death is already written. What matters is how we live our life untill then. Maybe as you say even the gods know that their end is written? I still admire them. Take Odin and Thor, Heimdall and all others. They know they will die in battle and yet they fight and do not hesitate to do so. I hope when my time comes I can face death with as much courage...
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timendi causa est nescire
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Rae'ya
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Post subject: Re: Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2010 2:13 pm |
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| Magicka Guardian & Life Member |
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:26 am
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
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ISO2 wrote: A philosophical question to those who follow the Norse gods: Why did the gods not prevent Ragnaroek? One way could have been instead of chaining Loki to the rock to kill him. Certainly not entirely new even amongst the gods they chose their fate instead. Was it a simple choice of honor above even one own's life? What do you guys think? Because they couldn't prevent it. They tried to stave it off in a number of ways... Frigga making all the plants and animals promise not to harm Baldur was one way of trying to prevent it, as was tricking and chaining Fenrir, chaining Loki up etc etc. Odhinn is the wanderer that he is partially because of his efforts at preventing Ragnarok... that goal is the guiding force behind much of his wanderings and searchings for wisdom. It's part of the reason why he sacrificed an eye to Mimir, part of why he hanged himself on Yggdrasil, and part of the reason why he's had all the adventures that he has. The Aesir are trying to prevent Ragnarok, but they can't. The Nornir have woven it into their Wyrd and thus it will happen.
The gods don't choose their own fate... not any more so than the rest of us do. If the Nornir have woven something into our Wyrd then there's nothing we can do about it. Wyrd isn't a fixed or predetermined concept, but it IS a sum of what has gone before as well as what we and the people around us are doing at the present moment. There is very little about the Norse view of fate that is predetermined, but when the Nornir have set things on a given path, there is no deviating from it. Ragnarok is one of those paths. Asphodel described it much as I would, though I do use a different spinning/weaving metaphor lol. Gets us to a similar conclusion though lol.
I fully believe that Loki is an agent of Wyrd. There is just too much of his mythology as well as others UPG about him that would suggest he operates as such an agent. Perhaps not consciously... because sometimes it seems as though he surprises himself as much as anyone else. But I do think that he's an agent of Wyrd. And Odhinn is bound to him strongly enough that he made him blood brother and would not let the other Aesir kill Loki. So that says a lot, I think.
I don't think it was a matter of honor that kept the Aesir from killing Loki. I don't believe that for one second. They wanted to kill him. Odhinn prevented them from doing that, and so they turned one son into a rabid wolf, killed the second, and bound Loki with his own son's guts and set him against a stone to writhe in agony for eternity. I do not think that was an honorable action at all, especially given that it was in the face of Loki telling them their faults and misdemeanors. The Aesir have never acted particularly honorably toward Loki at all, in my opinion. I'm not a big fan of Loki... my loyalties lie with another Jotun, but I also do view him a little differently to how most Asatruar do. Perhaps it's a difference in perspective because I see from the Jotun side rather than the Aesir side? That difference in perspective tends to pit me against commonly held Asatruar and Heathen opinions  lmao
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Starlah
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Post subject: Re: Freya Posted: Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:39 am |
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| Fire Dragon |
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Joined: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:51 pm
Posts: 32
Location: Wrapped in the loving arms of the Goddess and God!
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Mystira_Noctiluca wrote: often slept with men that were already married. As a mistress of lust and deception, she should not be used in magic involving fidelity or marriage I read some things lately that mentioned Freya as goddess to the home and marriage before she was mentioned as just a sex object. I have even come to wonder if Freya and Frigg might have been the same woman before being split... Or even part of a triple goddess like one website thought. That does certainly fill my Gemini needs! "May they whisper to you" _________________ ~Formerly Known as Serena~ "...Our bible IS the wind and the rain." "The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched—they must be
felt with the heart." — Helen Keller
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