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Chequer
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Post subject: Phases of the Moon  Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:01 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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I've just been researching the upcoming moon phases in light of the fact that people have been talking about the "Blue Moon". I also just read that there's a full moon and a total lunar eclipse (at moonrise in Australia) on 21 Dec 2010 (sadly not Summer Solstice on 22 Dec), but now I'm doubting the information.
I've tried several different sites for the moon phases for the Southern Hemisphere and they are split about equal on whether the next full moon is 31 December (and therefore Blue) or 1 January.
I never expected to find such a difference of opinion!
Is there a way of working it out for myself or can someone recommend a reliable website that will give me a definitive answer?
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Morgane
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 3:04 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm
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Location: Tir na nOg
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I always go by my Llewellyn Witches' Calendar or date book- I've never noticed any discrepancies with these.
It has the full moon listed at 2:13 p.m. on the 31st!
_________________
"Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey" ~ Drops of Jupiter by Train
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:26 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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Ok. That's fair enough. Australia is 11 hours ahead of GMT so that would make it 1st Jan here. No blue moon for us!
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Morgane
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Post subject: Posted: Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:46 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm
Posts: 3939
Location: Tir na nOg
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You could always astral travel over this way and celebrate with us the day before!
_________________
"Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey" ~ Drops of Jupiter by Train
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:11 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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I love that idea!
I've just found a better version of the timetable of phases that takes account of the Southern Hemisphere. The full moon is definitely on 1 Jan here.
However, there's a full moon on 1st and 30th Jan so I guess that makes it a blue moon?
Also, there's no full moon in February but one on 1st March and another on 30th March. Another blue moon?
Just like buses. You wait ages for one and then two come along!
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Morgane
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 4:32 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm
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Location: Tir na nOg
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You know, I could be wrong, but I think it's a Blue Moon, period...
It's the same full moon...
_________________
"Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey" ~ Drops of Jupiter by Train
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 8:38 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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I thought the definition of blue moon was that there were two full moons in the same calendar month.
I'm hoping someone will confirm this for us.
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Daisy Sthenias
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 10:44 am |
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| Admin Assistant, Moderator & Spam Oracle |
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Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2007 10:40 pm
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Location: London, UK
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According to wiki... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_moon. So say the wiki Gods apparently. It seems its an extra full moon due to an accumulation of extra days of the period of a couple of years. I would assume that means there are thirteen in a year instead of twelve?
"Recent popular usage defined a blue moon as the second full moon in a calendar month, stemming from an interpretation error made in 1946 that was discovered in 1999" - from the above article, seems the two in one month thing was an error...oopsie! _________________ 
Listen and in thine heart engrave my words; Keep closed thine eye and ear 'gainst prejudice;
Of others the example fear; think always for thyself: Consult, deliberate, and freely choose.
Let fools act aimlessly and without cause. Thou shouldst, in the present, contemplate the future.
(The Golden Verses of Pythagoras - D'Olivet)
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 11:46 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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I found another article referring to the blue moon that also says the two moons in a calendar month is incorrect.
It went on to explain, in great depth, that a blue moon only occurs when there is a 4th moon in a season. Seasons, apparently, only have 3 moons normally. The year then has 13 moons in total.
The article also points out that Dec 31 is not a blue moon (for a reason I couldn't fully understand).
http://www.panic.com/blog/2009/12/on-calendars/_________________
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Morgane
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Post subject: Posted: Thu Dec 24, 2009 3:15 pm |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm
Posts: 3939
Location: Tir na nOg
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And today I learned something! Thanks for pointing that out...
_________________
"Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey" ~ Drops of Jupiter by Train
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Elia V
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 1:38 am |
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| Forum Admin & Magicka's Crone |
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Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:59 am
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That's how the phrase ' once in a blue moon " came to be.
There isn't very many times you get two full moons in a month.
Blessings
Elia V
_________________  ~ PM ME ANYTIME ALWAYS GLAD TO HELP ~ ~ It does not do to dwell on dreams and forget to live ~
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:12 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
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Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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The 'two moons in a month' is apparently a mistake which is why Dec 31st is supposedly not a blue moon.
The article in one of the posts above explains that it's something to do with the number of moons in a season.
Anyhow, I can't find enough sites to give a really clear explanation so I guess you go with what you want.
On the basis of two moons in a month, Australia will have two blue moons next year, one in Jan and one in March so they're not that rare......
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Morgane
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 4:56 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 5:29 pm
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And now I'm really confused! 
_________________
"Now that she's back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair, hey, hey
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there's a time to change, hey, hey
Since the return from her stay on the moon
She listens like spring and she talks like June, hey, hey" ~ Drops of Jupiter by Train
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Chequer
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 6:55 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 8:29 pm
Posts: 266
Location: Cranbourne North, Melbourne
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Rae'ya
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Post subject: Posted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 7:29 am |
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Joined: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:26 am
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Location: Adelaide, Australia
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The problem with trying to work out which definition is the 'true' one is that we're trying to fit LUNAR phases into a SOLAR calendar, and they just don't match up, which is why it just gets confusing and you'll see conflicting information about it. The whole reason we end up with an 'extra' moon is because our calendar months aren't the same length as the lunar months, so our calendar year is longer than the lunar year and thus every few years there's a thirteenth moon in a calendar year.
Plus, we don't count our years and seasons exactly the same as they used to be counted, and we have different timezones throughout the world. So anything that we calculate for one country wont necessarily be appropriate for another. And again on top of that, the calendar seasons aren't actually the same as the astrological seasons, so counting the number of moons in a season depends on which system of seasons we're talking about.
So....
If you use the definition 'the blue moon is the thirteenth full moon in a calendar year', then it would depend on where you live as to whether 2009 has thirteen moons or not (in Australia, it doesn't, because the full moon for us will be on Jan 1st, not Dec 31st).
If you use the definition 'the blue moon is the second full moon in a calendar month', then the Dec 31st full moon is a blue moon for some of us, and the Jan 30th 2010 moon is a blue moon for others of us (eg. in Australia).
If you use the definition 'the blue moon is the extra moon that doesn't quite match up with the way the weather is going/the crops are growing/the stock are breeding', then it could be any of the moons in a thirteen-moon year, and this would be completely dependent on your local weather and agricultural goings on.
If you use the definition 'the blue moon is the third full moon in a (calender) season which has four full moons instead of three', then the Jan 30th full moon is the blue one. The current calendar season is December 1 2009 through to February 28 2010, and there are four full moons in those three months, the third of which is on Jan 30th.
If you use the definition 'the blue moon is the third full moon in a (astrological) season which has four full moons instead of three', then there isn't a blue moon anytime soon. The current astrological season is Dec 16 2009 through March 14 2010, and there are three full moons in that time, which makes it a normal 'season'. By this system, the next blue moon wont be until November.
This latter, astrological seasons definition is theoretically the most 'accurate' way of measuring, because it's a purely lunar system and doesn't actually depend on the solar calendar at all. Which means that you're not trying to superimpose a solar system over the top of a lunar system. Unfortunately, not many people use a purely lunar calendar system anymore, so it's also the most confusing for most people because you measure the seasons according to the new moon nearest the equinox or solstice, which isn't something that most people normally think about lol.
Clear as mud, huh? 
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